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Rook
 
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:04 pm 
kapilgain wrote:
But 9...b6 and 10...Na5 look quite playable to me. I have never tried them myself, or is it that I don't remember playing them, but the position that Black gets is promising for at least for a draw.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6!?:

I don't see why White should give up the initiative by playing 12.Rc1.

11...c5 doesn't threaten anything, does it? In fact, it offers a pawn needlessly. Berliner doesn't consider 11...c5, but I'm pretty sure he would say that the correct System move in your variation is 12.h5!. Proceed with the kingside attack as planned.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:42 am 
fickle wrote:
kapilgain wrote:
But 9...b6 and 10...Na5 look quite playable to me. I have never tried them myself, or is it that I don't remember playing them, but the position that Black gets is promising for at least for a draw.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6!?:

I don't see why White should give up the initiative by playing 12.Rc1.

11...c5 doesn't threaten anything, does it? In fact, it offers a pawn needlessly. Berliner doesn't consider 11...c5, but I'm pretty sure he would say that the correct System move in your variation is 12.h5!. Proceed with the kingside attack as planned.


11...c5 is a book move. And the initiative that White gains from 12.h5 can be easily neutralised. Thus Black gets no trouble in drawing the game. For instance:-

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. h5! cxd4! 13. cxd4 e5! 14. hxg6 fxg6 15. d5 Qd6!? The likely outcome of the game is again a draw. If, however, White inititates any form of attack along the half-open h-file against the Black king, then in the meantime the White uncastled and vulnerable king can be penalised by the Black forces for not castling.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am 
kapilgain wrote:
But 9...b6 and 10...Na5 look quite playable to me. I have never tried them myself, or is it that I don't remember playing them, but the position that Black gets is promising for at least for a draw.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6!?:

d) 13. d5! Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. h5 exd5 16. cxd5 gxh5 17. Ng3! Thus, 13. d5 seems to be the best move for White. White has a pawn majority in the center (Notice that the White d-pawn is a passed pawn.), while Black enjoys the same on the queen-side (The Black c-pawn is a passed pawn). The king-side is barren of any further play: the weakness of the Black isolated h-pawn on the half-open file can hardly be exploited to much extent. Therefore, the play will shift to the center and the queen's wing. Though the endgame is likely to be interesting, with best play from both the sides, a draw should result.

Okay, maybe I was a little hasty. :D Let's say that 12. Rc1 is best for White . (Berliner actually enthuses about this move in another line of the Gruenfeld.) Shouldn't White capture on g6, rather than on d5?

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6!? 13. d5! Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. h5 exd5 16. hxg6!? dxc4 17. gxh7+ Kh8 18. Bb1!?

Maybe this is not yet a winning position, but White still has the initiative and his pieces are all active. Here's one possible continuation:

18... Qf6!? 19. Ng3!? [19. Nf4!?] Re8 20. Nh5 Qg6 21. Nxg7 Qxg7 22.Qh5 Bb7 23. f3 Re6 24. Kf1 c3 25. Bh6 Ba6+ 26. Kf2 Qd4+ 27. Be3 Qg7 28. g4 Re8 29. Qh6 Re6 30.Qxg7 Kxg7 31. Rxc3 Nc6 32. f4 Re8 33. e5 Rad8 34. Be4 Bb5 35. Rh5 Rc8 36. f5! Nxe5 37. Bh6+ Kh8 38. Rg5 Ng6 39. fxg6 fxg6 40. Bxg6 Re2+ 41. Kg3 Re7 42. Rf3 Bc4 43. Bf8! Re3 44.Rxe3 Rxf8 1-0

Admittedly, this is a long variation and there are many places where Black could play something different. But by move 31 White is a pawn up, and he has the Bishop pair. :?:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:21 am 
fickle wrote:
kapilgain wrote:
But 9...b6 and 10...Na5 look quite playable to me. I have never tried them myself, or is it that I don't remember playing them, but the position that Black gets is promising for at least for a draw.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6!?:

d) 13. d5! Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. h5 exd5 16. cxd5 gxh5 17. Ng3! Thus, 13. d5 seems to be the best move for White. White has a pawn majority in the center (Notice that the White d-pawn is a passed pawn.), while Black enjoys the same on the queen-side (The Black c-pawn is a passed pawn). The king-side is barren of any further play: the weakness of the Black isolated h-pawn on the half-open file can hardly be exploited to much extent. Therefore, the play will shift to the center and the queen's wing. Though the endgame is likely to be interesting, with best play from both the sides, a draw should result.

Okay, maybe I was a little hasty. :D Let's say that 12. Rc1 is best for White . (Berliner actually enthuses about this move in another line of the Gruenfeld.) Shouldn't White capture on g6, rather than on d5?

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6!? 13. d5! Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. h5 exd5 16. hxg6!? dxc4 17. gxh7+ Kh8 18. Bb1!?

Maybe this is not yet a winning position, but White still has the initiative and his pieces are all active. Here's one possible continuation:

18... Qf6!? 19. Ng3!? [19. Nf4!?] Re8 20. Nh5 Qg6 21. Nxg7 Qxg7 22.Qh5 Bb7 23. f3 Re6 24. Kf1 c3 25. Bh6 Ba6+ 26. Kf2 Qd4+ 27. Be3 Qg7 28. g4 Re8 29. Qh6 Re6 30.Qxg7 Kxg7 31. Rxc3 Nc6 32. f4 Re8 33. e5 Rad8 34. Be4 Bb5 35. Rh5 Rc8 36. f5! Nxe5 37. Bh6+ Kh8 38. Rg5 Ng6 39. fxg6 fxg6 40. Bxg6 Re2+ 41. Kg3 Re7 42. Rf3 Bc4 43. Bf8! Re3 44.Rxe3 Rxf8 1-0

Admittedly, this is a long variation and there are many places where Black could play something different. But by move 31 White is a pawn up, and he has the Bishop pair. :?:


But after 18. Bb1, 18... Be6 seems to be a better move:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6 13. d5 Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. h5 exd5 16. hxg6 dxc4 17. gxh7+ Kh8 18. Bb1 Be6!? 19. Bd2 Nc6 20. Nf4 Bd4! 21. Qf3 Qf6 22. Kf1 Rad8! And Black controls most of the board with his well-placed pieces.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:31 pm 
kapilgain wrote:
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6 13. d5 Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. h5 exd5 16. hxg6 dxc4 17. gxh7+ Kh8 18. Bb1 Be6!? 19. Bd2 Nc6 20. Nf4 Bd4! 21. Qf3 Qf6 22. Kf1 Rad8! And Black controls most of the board with his well-placed pieces.

I'm beginning to think that the White knight on e2 is the problem. He was deployed there to support the pawn on d4. But after 13. d5, he's no longer required to perform that role - so he should be redeployed. But where to? c3? f4?

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6 13. d5 Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. Nc3!? :?:

By the way, if anyone else out there has anything to offer this discussion, don't be shy! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:30 pm 
fickle wrote:
kapilgain wrote:
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6 13. d5 Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. h5 exd5 16. hxg6 dxc4 17. gxh7+ Kh8 18. Bb1 Be6!? 19. Bd2 Nc6 20. Nf4 Bd4! 21. Qf3 Qf6 22. Kf1 Rad8! And Black controls most of the board with his well-placed pieces.

I'm beginning to think that the White knight on e2 is the problem. He was deployed there to support the pawn on d4. But after 13. d5, he's no longer required to perform that role - so he should be redeployed. But where to? c3? f4?

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6 13. d5 Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. Nc3!? :?:

By the way, if anyone else out there has anything to offer this discussion, don't be shy! :D


The idea of 15.Nc3 looks better than the previous variations. However, Black still has good moves at his disposal.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6 13. d5 Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. Nc3!:-

a) 15... Be5

15... Be5!? He first simplifies the position by exchanging all the minor pieces, thus tacitly weakening the White advanced pawns. Black will accumulate all his heavy pieces towards the centre when, eventually, the White centre pawns, to some extent, will get paralysed and a draw will be the outcome of the game. After the text, the idea is to follow up with ...Qf6, to exchange material.

16. h5 Qf6 17. Qd2 Re8 18. hxg6 fxg6 19. O-O!? Ba6 20. f4 Bxc3 21. Rxc3 exd5 22. e5! This appears better than the immediate cxd5 as it forces Black to lose time with an another queen maneuvre.

22... Qf7 23. cxd5 Bxd3 24. Rxd3 Qf5 25. Rd1 Nc4 26. Qe2 Nxe3 27. Qxe3!? 27.Rxe3!, giving up a pawn, is also good.

27... g5 28. Rf1 Rad8 And a draw should result after a slow endgame struggle.



b) 15... h5

15... h5! This appears as the best move to me. It prevents the White h5-pawn advance, and also gives Black some space on the king-side.

16. g3 exd5 17. exd5 Bg4 18. Qd2 Bf3! 19. O-O Qd7! 20. Kh2 Qg4

And either a draw or a win for Black should result ! :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:47 pm 
kapilgain wrote:
The idea of 15.Nc3 looks better than the previous variations. However, Black still has good moves at his disposal.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6 13. d5 Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. Nc3!:-

... [snip] ...

b) 15... h5

15... h5! This appears as the best move to me. It prevents the White h5-pawn advance, and also gives Black some space on the king-side.

16. g3 exd5 17. exd5 Bg4 18. Qd2 Bf3! 19. O-O Qd7! 20. Kh2 Qg4

And either a draw or a win for Black should result ! :wink:

I'm curious why you chose 16. g3 over the more obvious 16. Bg5. like the knight on e2, the bishop on e3 is no longer required to protect the d-pawn, which has now advanced to d5. So perhaps it makes sense to relocate it now. 16. Bg5 keeps the initiative by attacking the Black queen. Black must now choose between 16... Bf6, 16... f6, or moving the queen.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 b6 10. h4 Na5 11. Bd3 c5 12. Rc1 Be6 13. d5 Bc8 14. c4 e6 15. Nc3! h5! 16. Bg5!?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:15 pm 
Here are a few variations:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3 h5 16.Bg5 Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 Qd7 20.O-O Rad8 21.f4 exd5 22.exd5 Qg4 23.Rf3 Rfe8 24.Ng3 Re7 25.Ne4!

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3 h5 16.Bg5 Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 Re8 20.O-O exd5 21.exd5 Qd7 22.f3 Qd6 23.Nc3 Nxc4 24.Bxc4 Bxc4 25.Rfd1 Ba6 26.Ne4 Rxe4 27.fxe4


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:04 am 
fickle wrote:
Here are a few variations:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3 h5 16.Bg5 Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 Qd7 20.O-O Rad8 21.f4 exd5 22.exd5 Qg4 23.Rf3 Rfe8 24.Ng3 Re7 25.Ne4!

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3 h5 16.Bg5 Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 Re8 20.O-O exd5 21.exd5 Qd7 22.f3 Qd6 23.Nc3 Nxc4 24.Bxc4 Bxc4 25.Rfd1 Ba6 26.Ne4 Rxe4 27.fxe4


Both the variations really impress me! I am stunned to find that the position still has the fighting potentials, while I was high in belief that a draw is a forced outcome! But after careful analysis, it seems that Black can get 'quite close' to equality by simplifying the position through exchanges. Yet Black will find it a difficult task to draw since White keeps a slight advantage in the position.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3 h5 16.Bg5 Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 f5!?

I prefer 19... f5 over your 19... Qd7 and 19... Re8 for three reasons:
1) 19... f5 threatens the White e-pawn and hence initiates exchanges by 20. gxf6 (e.p.)
2) 19... f5 opens the f-file for the Black heavy pieces, thus enabling them to put reasonable pressure on the White f-pawn.
3) After an eventual ... exd5: the d, e and f-files will be open to the three Black heavy pieces to bear down pressure on the advanced d, e and f pawns.

20. gxf6 Qxf6 21. O-O Rad8 22. Qe3 exd5 23. cxd5 Bxd3 24. Qxd3 Nc6

And though White has a slight advantage, I doubt whether he can make much use of it. If White advances his centre pawns, Black can start the same on the queen-side with his passed c-pawn.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:07 am 
With the above variation in view (where White holds a small advantage--- much to Black's dislike! :P ), I believe that I stood wrong when I said that 15... h5 was the best move :? :roll: . 16. Bg5 is a striking refutation! :twisted: This obliges me to turn my attention back to the move 15... Be5!?. The reconsideration tells me that (maybe :? ) 15... Be5! is the strongest move in that position; and also that it leads to a slow endgame fight where a draw is almost forced! :twisted: :P


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:51 pm 
kapilgain wrote:
15... Be5!? He first simplifies the position by exchanging all the minor pieces, thus tacitly weakening the White advanced pawns. Black will accumulate all his heavy pieces towards the centre when, eventually, the White centre pawns, to some extent, will get paralysed and a draw will be the outcome of the game. After the text, the idea is to follow up with ...Qf6, to exchange material.

16. h5 Qf6 17. Qd2 Re8 18. hxg6 fxg6 19. O-O!? Ba6 20. f4 Bxc3 21. Rxc3 exd5 22. e5! This appears better than the immediate cxd5 as it forces Black to lose time with an another queen maneuvre.

22... Qf7 23. cxd5 Bxd3 24. Rxd3 Qf5 25. Rd1 Nc4 26. Qe2 Nxe3 27. Qxe3!? 27.Rxe3!, giving up a pawn, is also good.

27... g5 28. Rf1 Rad8 And a draw should result after a slow endgame struggle.


Well, of course, if White obliges by playing 16. h5, Black can have his way and post the queen on f6. But what if White plays 16. Bg5, as in the variations we have just been examing? :idea:

I'll have to take a look at it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:57 am 
fickle wrote:
kapilgain wrote:
15... Be5!? He first simplifies the position by exchanging all the minor pieces, thus tacitly weakening the White advanced pawns. Black will accumulate all his heavy pieces towards the centre when, eventually, the White centre pawns, to some extent, will get paralysed and a draw will be the outcome of the game. After the text, the idea is to follow up with ...Qf6, to exchange material.

16. h5 Qf6 17. Qd2 Re8 18. hxg6 fxg6 19. O-O!? Ba6 20. f4 Bxc3 21. Rxc3 exd5 22. e5! This appears better than the immediate cxd5 as it forces Black to lose time with an another queen maneuvre.

22... Qf7 23. cxd5 Bxd3 24. Rxd3 Qf5 25. Rd1 Nc4 26. Qe2 Nxe3 27. Qxe3!? 27.Rxe3!, giving up a pawn, is also good.

27... g5 28. Rf1 Rad8 And a draw should result after a slow endgame struggle.


Well, of course, if White obliges by playing 16. h5, Black can have his way and post the queen on f6. But what if White plays 16. Bg5, as in the variations we have just been examing? :idea:

I'll have to take a look at it.


1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3! Be5 16.Bg5!? Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 f6!? 20.gxf6 Qxf6 21.O-O exd5 22. cxd5 c4!? 23.Bc2 = (1/2-1/2)

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:12 am 
kapilgain wrote:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3! Be5 16.Bg5!? Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 f6!? 20.gxf6 Qxf6 21.O-O exd5 22. cxd5 c4!? 23.Bc2 = (1/2-1/2)


You really think this position is drawn? Let's take a look at it:

White has two connected passed pawns in the middle of the board! Black has one passed pawn on the c-file, and it isn't going anywhere.

White's king is safely ensconced behind a bulwark of pawns - only the h-pawn is missing. Black's king, however, is much more exposed: the f-pawn is gone and the g-pawn has been moved, weakening the dark squares around the king.

White has developed all his pieces, whereas Black has still not moved his queen's rook.

Black's bishop and knight are stranded on the side of the board, where they are tied down defending one pawn. White's pieces, however, are quite active.

I'm not sure what the lines on your diagram mean. Are you suggesting possible moves for Black? You'll really have to give me some variations to convince me that this is a draw. :)

In the meantime, here's a fairly straightforward win I played against the computer:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3! Be5 16.Bg5!? Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 f6!? 20.gxf6 Qxf6 21.O-O exd5 22.cxd5 c4!? 23.Bc2 {see diagram} Nb7 24.Qc3 Qd6 25.Rcd1 Rae8 26.f4 Qd7 27.e5 Qg4 28.Qf3 Qc8 29.Qg3 Qc7 30.d6 Qg7 31.Nc3 Kh8 32.Nd5 Rf7 33.Qh3 Nc5 34.Nc7 Rxc7 35.dxc7 Rg8 36.f5 Bc8 37.e6 gxf5 38.Rd8 Nxe6 39.Rxg8+ Kxg8 40.Bxf5 Nxc7 41.Bxh7+ Kh8 42.Qxc8+ Kxh7 43.Rf3 Qa1+ 44.Kh2 Qe5+ 45.Rg3 Qh5+ 46.Rh3 Qxh3+ 47.Kxh3 1-0


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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:32 am
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Location: India
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:13 am 
fickle wrote:
kapilgain wrote:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8. Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3! Be5 16.Bg5!? Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 f6!? 20.gxf6 Qxf6 21.O-O exd5 22. cxd5 c4!? 23.Bc2 = (1/2-1/2)


You really think this position is drawn? Let's take a look at it:

White has two connected passed pawns in the middle of the board! Black has one passed pawn on the c-file, and it isn't going anywhere.

White's king is safely ensconced behind a bulwark of pawns - only the h-pawn is missing. Black's king, however, is much more exposed: the f-pawn is gone and the g-pawn has been moved, weakening the dark squares around the king.

White has developed all his pieces, whereas Black has still not moved his queen's rook.

Black's bishop and knight are stranded on the side of the board, where they are tied down defending one pawn. White's pieces, however, are quite active.

I'm not sure what the lines on your diagram mean. Are you suggesting possible moves for Black? You'll really have to give me some variations to convince me that this is a draw. :)

In the meantime, here's a fairly straightforward win I played against the computer:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3! Be5 16.Bg5!? Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 f6!? 20.gxf6 Qxf6 21.O-O exd5 22.cxd5 c4!? 23.Bc2 {see diagram} Nb7 24.Qc3 Qd6 25.Rcd1 Rae8 26.f4 Qd7 27.e5 Qg4 28.Qf3 Qc8 29.Qg3 Qc7 30.d6 Qg7 31.Nc3 Kh8 32.Nd5 Rf7 33.Qh3 Nc5 34.Nc7 Rxc7 35.dxc7 Rg8 36.f5 Bc8 37.e6 gxf5 38.Rd8 Nxe6 39.Rxg8+ Kxg8 40.Bxf5 Nxc7 41.Bxh7+ Kh8 42.Qxc8+ Kxh7 43.Rf3 Qa1+ 44.Kh2 Qe5+ 45.Rg3 Qh5+ 46.Rh3 Qxh3+ 47.Kxh3 1-0


1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3! Be5 16.Bg5!? Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 f6!? 20.gxf6 Qxf6 21.O-O exd5 22.cxd5 c4!? 23.Bc2 Nb7 24.Qc3 Qxc3 25.Nxc3 Nc5 :-

a) 26.Rfd1 Nd3 27.Bxd3 cxd3 28.d6 Rae8 29.f3 Re6 30.e5! Rxe5 31.Ne4 Kg7!! 32.Rc7+ Rf7 33.d7 Rd5 34.Rxa7 Bb5 35.Nc3 Rdxd7 36.Rxd7 Bxd7 37.Rxd3 =

b) 26.Rcd1 Nd3 27.Rd2 Rac8 28.f3!? h6!? 29.Rfd1 Rc5 30.Bxd3 cxd3 31.Na4 Ra5 32.Nb2 Rxa2 33.Nxd3 Rxd2 34.Rxd2 Bxd3 35.Rxd3 =

c) 26.d6 Nd3 27.Bxd3 cxd3 28.Rfd1 Rae8 29.f3!? Re6 30.Nd5! Rxd6 31.a4 Rf7 32.Nb4 d2! 33.Rc2 Bb7 34.Rcxd2 Rxd2 35.Rxd2 =

d) 26.e5 Nd3 27.Bxd3 cxd3 28.Rfd1 Rae8 29.e6 Bc4 30.Rb1 Re7 31.Rb4 b5! 32.Nxb5 Bxd5 33.Rxd3 Bxa2 34.Ra4 Bxe6 35.Rxa7 Rxa7 36.Nxa7 Bf5 =

This should convince you! :wink:

By the way, in the diagram those arrows suggested plausible moves for black in the later course of the game; while those red squares suggest strong outpost for the Black pieces.


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Rook
 
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:33 am
Posts: 80
Location: Dublin
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:24 am 
kapilgain wrote:
This should convince you! :wink:

You'd think! :D

Quote:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Ne2 Nc6 9.Be3 b6 10.h4 Na5 11.Bd3 c5 12.Rc1 Be6 13.d5 Bc8 14.c4 e6 15.Nc3! Be5 16.Bg5!? Bf6 17.Qd2 Ba6 18.Ne2 Bxg5 19.hxg5 f6!? 20.gxf6 Qxf6 21.O-O exd5 22.cxd5 c4!? 23.Bc2 Nb7 24.Qc3 Qxc3 25.Nxc3 Nc5 :-

a) 26.Rfd1 Nd3 27.Bxd3 cxd3 28.d6 Rae8 29.f3 Re6 30.e5! Rxe5 31.Ne4 Kg7!! 32.Rc7+ Rf7 33.d7 Rd5 34.Rxa7 Bb5 35.Nc3 Rdxd7 36.Rxd7 Bxd7 37.Rxd3 =

b) 26.Rcd1 Nd3 27.Rd2 Rac8 28.f3!? h6!? 29.Rfd1 Rc5 30.Bxd3 cxd3 31.Na4 Ra5 32.Nb2 Rxa2 33.Nxd3 Rxd2 34.Rxd2 Bxd3 35.Rxd3 =

c) 26.d6 Nd3 27.Bxd3 cxd3 28.Rfd1 Rae8 29.f3!? Re6 30.Nd5! Rxd6 31.a4 Rf7 32.Nb4 d2! 33.Rc2 Bb7 34.Rcxd2 Rxd2 35.Rxd2 =

d) 26.e5 Nd3 27.Bxd3 cxd3 28.Rfd1 Rae8 29.e6 Bc4 30.Rb1 Re7 31.Rb4 b5! 32.Nxb5 Bxd5 33.Rxd3 Bxa2 34.Ra4 Bxe6 35.Rxa7 Rxa7 36.Nxa7 Bf5 =


e) 26.Rce1!? Nd3 27.Re2 Rae8!? 28.e5! Rf7 29.e6 Rfe7 30.f4 Kh8 31.f5 gxf5 32.Rxf5 Rd8 33.Re3 Bc8 34.Ref3 Kg8 35.Rf6 1-0 :?:

I still think White's two central pawns are decisive.


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