The Chess Exchange

The Chess Exchange - To Your Chess Success!

Skip to content

It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:02 pm 






This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 12 posts ] 

Previous topic | Next topic 

  Print view

Author Message
 Offline
Newbie
 
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:05 am
Posts: 2
 Post subject: Close centre
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:16 am 
I like to watch and play closed centre game (d4-e5-f4 or c4-d5-e4 or e3-d4-c5) but, as a rookie, I do not which variation in 1.d4 game reach that position. Could someone give me any suggestion? thanks in advance.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Moderator
 
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:20 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: Wales, UK
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:52 am 
Rexfelix wrote:
I like to watch and play closed centre game (d4-e5-f4 or c4-d5-e4 or e3-d4-c5) but, as a rookie, I do not which variation in 1.d4 game reach that position. Could someone give me any suggestion? thanks in advance.


If your opponent doesn't want a closed centre you can't really force the game along those lines. But, if you opponent plays something like e.g. the King's Indian then there's a good chance you will get your wish.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. d5

It's better to play the best moves for the position on the board. If that means an open game, then so be it. Open games have more tactics - and playing tactical games should help you improve your game. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Pawn
 
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am
Posts: 13
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:22 am 
Rexfelix wrote:
I like to watch and play closed centre game (d4-e5-f4 or c4-d5-e4 or e3-d4-c5) but, as a rookie, I do not which variation in 1.d4 game reach that position. Could someone give me any suggestion? thanks in advance.


The Colle-Zukertort almost always leads to a closed center. The Stonewall attack also does, but it is a much weaker opening.

A video showing the Colle-Zukertort in action can be found here. There are three interesting articles/downloads you might be interested in:

1) The "Philosophy of the Zukertort" download on the Zuke 'Em Excerpt page.

2) The "Zukertort Wisdom" download on the same page.

3) The "Four Keys to the Colle-Zukertort" Article at Chessville

Hope that helps.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Bishop
 
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:07 am
Posts: 61
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:36 pm 
Zukertort wrote:
The Colle-Zukertort almost always leads to a closed center. The Stonewall attack also does, but it is a much weaker opening.

No the center in the Colle is a semi closed one, example of close centers are main lines in the king indian defense, some line in the Ruy Lopez, advanced variations in the french and caro kan. A close center in the colle will be achieved is no central breakthrough is not made or if it is made the player which breaks either c5, e4, or even e5 closes it but rarely you see a close center in a colle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Pawn
 
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am
Posts: 13
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:29 am 
Torr,
You are referring to the Colle-Koltanowski.

I said the "Colle-Zukertort" often leads to closed centers. Which it does.

In the Colle-Zukertort, neither side tends to make any central pawn breaks. White does not need to play e4 since his Bishop is comfortably developed at b2. Black eventually tends to exchange on d4 to defuse tactical threats down the long diagonal.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Bishop
 
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:07 am
Posts: 61
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:10 pm 
Zuker

Even in the Koltanowsky black has in his disposal the central breakthrough c5, if black exchanges in d4 as you suggested the center will be semi closed,


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Pawn
 
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am
Posts: 13
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:51 pm 
torr,
I said I was talking about the Colle-Zukertort. And then I said again that I was talking about the Colle-Zukertort.

...cxd4 does open the d-file, but then a later exchange on e5 closes it when white recaptures with the f-pawn.

It is also somewhat common for a closed center pointing the other way to occur in the classical variation where Black play ...Bb7 and ...Nbd7, preparing ...Ne4.

It also can come about in the normal Colle when black plays for an early Q-side fianchetto [as suggested by several authors] without playing ...c5. Indeed, an entire module of my latest book on the Colle system is devoted to precisely this situation.

I will admit to using the term "closed center" rather loosely at first because I thought the poster was using it in a more general way. Even when one of the center files is open for White, the play down the file is secondary or tertiary in nature (more like a threat to hold back ambitious play than a source of candidate moves), and there is generally little opportunity for the center to become unlocked unless White allows it later in the game after the conditions for a K-side assault have been attained.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Bishop
 
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:07 am
Posts: 61
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:20 am 
Zukertort wrote:
torr,
I said I was talking about the Colle-Zukertort. And then I said again that I was talking about the Colle-Zukertort.

...cxd4 does open the d-file, but then a later exchange on e5 closes it when white recaptures with the f-pawn.

It is also somewhat common for a closed center pointing the other way to occur in the classical variation where Black play ...Bb7 and ...Nbd7, preparing ...Ne4.

It also can come about in the normal Colle when black plays for an early Q-side fianchetto [as suggested by several authors] without playing ...c5. Indeed, an entire module of my latest book on the Colle system is devoted to precisely this situation.

I will admit to using the term "closed center" rather loosely at first because I thought the poster was using it in a more general way. Even when one of the center files is open for White, the play down the file is secondary or tertiary in nature (more like a threat to hold back ambitious play than a source of candidate moves), and there is generally little opportunity for the center to become unlocked unless White allows it later in the game after the conditions for a K-side assault have been attained.


Zuker where I did I say the d file gets open? You said black has no central breakthroughs and that is incorrect as c5 is a central break as it hits the d4 pawn. The main theme of the post is closed center, a close center is closed period no way of using the term "loosely".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Bishop
 
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:07 am
Posts: 61
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:21 am 
Zukertort wrote:
torr,
I said I was talking about the Colle-Zukertort. And then I said again that I was talking about the Colle-Zukertort.

...cxd4 does open the d-file, but then a later exchange on e5 closes it when white recaptures with the f-pawn.

It is also somewhat common for a closed center pointing the other way to occur in the classical variation where Black play ...Bb7 and ...Nbd7, preparing ...Ne4.

It also can come about in the normal Colle when black plays for an early Q-side fianchetto [as suggested by several authors] without playing ...c5. Indeed, an entire module of my latest book on the Colle system is devoted to precisely this situation.

I will admit to using the term "closed center" rather loosely at first because I thought the poster was using it in a more general way. Even when one of the center files is open for White, the play down the file is secondary or tertiary in nature (more like a threat to hold back ambitious play than a source of candidate moves), and there is generally little opportunity for the center to become unlocked unless White allows it later in the game after the conditions for a K-side assault have been attained.
In the Colle-Zukertort, neither side tends to make any central pawn breaks. White does not need to play e4 since his Bishop is comfortably developed at b2. Black eventually tends to exchange on d4 to defuse tactical threats down the long diagonal


Zuker where I did I say the d file gets open? You said black has no central breakthroughs and that is incorrect as c5 is a central break as it hits the d4 pawn. The main theme of the post is closed center, a close center is closed period no way of using the term "loosely".


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
Site Admin
 
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:42 am
Posts: 1430
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:18 pm 
You could start the Torr and Zuker show. Or the Zuker and Torr Show. Or maybe you already started it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Pawn
 
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am
Posts: 13
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:10 am 
I meant "e-file."

You mentioned an exchange on d4 creating a semi-open center. I was noting that a later exchange on e5 closes the e-file that exd4 (when White recaptures) opens.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Bishop
 
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:07 am
Posts: 61
 Post subject: Re: Close centre
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:45 am 
Zukertort wrote:
I meant "e-file."

You mentioned an exchange on d4 creating a semi-open center. I was noting that a later exchange on e5 closes the e-file that exd4 (when White recaptures) opens.


If black takes in e5 after first having exchange in d4 yes the e files gets closed but the d file gets semiopened, black could have a pawn in d5 but there is no white pawn in d file, I do not think that is a close center.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 12 posts ] 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 193 on Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:40 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest





cron

ChessCentral - The Leader in Cutting-Edge Chess * Buy Fritz 12 * Buy Rybka 4 * Buy Fritz Powerbook DVD


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

Style based on Andreas08 by Andreas Viklund and created by Elizabeth Shulman, Stop Animal Rights, Dog Training by corgipower