The Chess Exchange

The Chess Exchange - To Your Chess Success!

Skip to content

It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:54 pm 






This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 15 posts ] 

Previous topic | Next topic 

  Print view

Author Message
 Offline
Pawn
 
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:01 am
Posts: 20
 Post subject: London System
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:10 am 
I am trying to learn a new oppening called the London System, does anyone have any advice about this opening?


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
King
 
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:32 am
Posts: 182
Location: India
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:37 am 
Gary Lane discusses about the London System here:

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/lane54.pdf
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/lane57.pdf


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
King
 
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Placentia, CA
 Post subject: Re: London System
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:24 pm 
ShadowSong wrote:
I am trying to learn a new oppening called the London System, does anyone have any advice about this opening?

I've been successfully playing the London System (1 d4 2 Nf3 3 Bf4) for over twenty years in tournament play. It is very easy learn, and it is very difficult for Black to disrupt White's plan of development.

I recommend "Winning with the London System" by Andrew Soltis.

The London System has been used in tournament play by at least three world champions: Capablaca, Smyslov and Kasparov.

GM Gata Kamsky has played it, and GM Kovacevic plays it often and has written a book about the opening which I have not read called "Win with the London System."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Pawn
 
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:51 pm
Posts: 8
 Post subject: Re: London System
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:42 pm 
chuckychess wrote:
ShadowSong wrote:
I am trying to learn a new oppening called the London System, does anyone have any advice about this opening?

I've been successfully playing the London System (1 d4 2 Nf3 3 Bf4) for over twenty years in tournament play. It is very easy learn, and it is very difficult for Black to disrupt White's plan of development.

I recommend "Winning with the London System" by Andrew Soltis.

The London System has been used in tournament play by at least three world champions: Capablaca, Smyslov and Kasparov.

GM Gata Kamsky has played it, and GM Kovacevic plays it often and has written a book about the opening which I have not read called "Win with the London System."


Just wondering, but can black equalize against the London System with correct play or no?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
King
 
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Placentia, CA
 Post subject: Re: London System
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:01 pm 
JesseEddleman wrote:
chuckychess wrote:
ShadowSong wrote:
I am trying to learn a new oppening called the London System, does anyone have any advice about this opening?

I've been successfully playing the London System (1 d4 2 Nf3 3 Bf4) for over twenty years in tournament play. It is very easy learn, and it is very difficult for Black to disrupt White's plan of development.

I recommend "Winning with the London System" by Andrew Soltis.

The London System has been used in tournament play by at least three world champions: Capablaca, Smyslov and Kasparov.

GM Gata Kamsky has played it, and GM Kovacevic plays it often and has written a book about the opening which I have not read called "Win with the London System."


Just wondering, but can black equalize against the London System with correct play or no?


I'm sure that Black can equalize with best play. Having said that, even though Fritz might say that Black has totally equalized, against a human opponent you have what I call a "practical advantage" because almost for sure you will be more familiar with the London-ish positions than your opponent.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
King
 
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:57 am
Posts: 142
Location: Leeds, UK
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:36 pm 
The London System has been my pet opening as white for about a year - there’s nothing flashy about it, it's just get you're pieces onto active squares quick, stuff.

If black plays something fairly safe and passive such as a KID you should have no problem scoring the win - simply get the Rooks connected and advance the Queen side pawns, crowding black out of space - eventually something has to give in the position.

Black can certainly equalise with sharper positional play though - usually with some sort of set up fianchettoing the light squared Bishop and causing early disruption to the LS's signature pawn triangle - which does put a bit of a spanner in the works - but you cant have everything :wink:

If the opening is new to you, I would strongly recommend getting hold of Andrew Martin's 'Foxy Openings' DVD on the London System - it's certainly not definitive, the format gives whites basic plans for various black responses then 10 instructive games are demonstrated - personally I feel it doesn't give enough on the theory - but it will certainly help any books on the system sink in quicker.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
King
 
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Placentia, CA
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:08 am 
In his book, "The Complete Book of Chess Strategy: Grandmaster Techniques from A to Z", IM Jeremy Silman refers to the London System as "The Boring System." White makes no attempt to gain an advantage in the opening, and it can be very difficult for Black to play for a win without taking risks. As a long-time London System player, a line that I think gives Black an excellent game is 1 d4 d5 2 Nf3 e6 3 Bf4 Bd6! The three main candidate moves for White seem to be: 4 Bxd6, 4 e3 and 4 Bg3. I personally think that Black has equalized against any of those moves. After 1 d4 d5 2 Nf3 e6, in his excellent book "Guide to Good Chess", IM Cecil Purdy (the first World's Correspondence Champion) actually gives 3 Bf4 a '?' in light of the forthcoming 3...Bd6!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Knight
 
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 26
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:11 pm 
Nasgar,

You said that the London opening is good against the KID. I find that interesting because I've been reading up on the Colle opening, which appears to be very similar. From what I've read, the Colle is weak against the KID. Why is the London good and the Colle weak?

I'm relatively new to studying chess. I started out last year, took some time off and now I'm back. When I stopped playig last year, my FICS rating was 900-1000 if that gives you any idea of where I'm at.

If there is a difference, then I think it would be an easy enough transition into London after 1d4 Nf6 2Nf3 g3 with 4Bf4.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
King
 
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:57 am
Posts: 142
Location: Leeds, UK
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:30 pm 
Eladar wrote:
Nasgar,

You said that the London opening is good against the KID. I find that interesting because I've been reading up on the Colle opening, which appears to be very similar. From what I've read, the Colle is weak against the KID. Why is the London good and the Colle weak?

I'm relatively new to studying chess. I started out last year, took some time off and now I'm back. When I stopped playig last year, my FICS rating was 900-1000 if that gives you any idea of where I'm at.

If there is a difference, then I think it would be an easy enough transition into London after 1d4 Nf6 2Nf3 g3 with 4Bf4.


I wouldn't agree that the Colle system is that much like the London - in fact, if anything it's more akin to the Stonewall, before f4 is played.

From what I understand, in most lines of the Colle, you don't play Bf4, but rather block the Bishop in, on its home square c1 and develop the pawn triangle of d4, e3 and c3 earlier instead.

Where as in most lines of the London (though not against the KID) you play 2.Bf4 but delay the development of the Knight to f3 in the hope black will offer the trade of dark-squared Bishops - you can then play f4, getting into a superior Stonewall.

It might be a matter of taste, but I always find I can get black into a fairly passive position with the London, if he plays the KID - I mainly fear set-ups where black plays an early bf5 - stopping white developing his own Bishop to the optimum d3 square - thus blocking a lot of his plan, and usually forcing a Queen trade. Thankfully, I don't often have it played against me :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Knight
 
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 26
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:48 pm 
I meant similar in early development. They are identical in the first two moves, at least according to what chuckychess posted: 1 d4 2 Nf3 3 Bf4

Although the Colle does block the bishop in initially, the plan is to advance the e3 pawn and hopefully have an exchange at e4 with the queen's knight taking e4 from d2, opening the diagonal for the bishop. So although yes, initially the bishop is trapped in the triangle, the triangle gets busted open on the e-file with two bishops aimed directly at the king's side ready to bust open the defenses of a castled king.

But enough of this colle talk. I was hoping that I could transition into the London after seeing black's opening 1Nf6 2g6. Yes, I'd be giving up the stone wall attempt with 2Nf3, but against the KID you couldn't get your black bishop exchange anyhow.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
King
 
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Placentia, CA
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:47 pm 
Eladar wrote:
Nasgar,

You said that the London opening is good against the KID. I find that interesting because I've been reading up on the Colle opening, which appears to be very similar. From what I've read, the Colle is weak against the KID. Why is the London good and the Colle weak?

I'm relatively new to studying chess. I started out last year, took some time off and now I'm back. When I stopped playig last year, my FICS rating was 900-1000 if that gives you any idea of where I'm at.

If there is a difference, then I think it would be an easy enough transition into London after 1d4 Nf6 2Nf3 g3 with 4Bf4.

There are at least two reasons that I can think of why the London System is good against the KID, but the Colle isn't:

1) In the London System, White gets his QB out to before hemming it in with e2-e3.

2) One of the main themes of the Colle is to play Bf1-d3. Against the KID, this plan doesn't make any sense because Black's pawn on g6 makes a kingside attack based on exploiting the b1-h7 diaganol very difficult.


Top
 Profile  
 
User avatar  Offline
King
 
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:57 am
Posts: 142
Location: Leeds, UK
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:38 pm 
chuckychess wrote:
Eladar wrote:
Nasgar,

You said that the London opening is good against the KID. I find that interesting because I've been reading up on the Colle opening, which appears to be very similar. From what I've read, the Colle is weak against the KID. Why is the London good and the Colle weak?

I'm relatively new to studying chess. I started out last year, took some time off and now I'm back. When I stopped playig last year, my FICS rating was 900-1000 if that gives you any idea of where I'm at.

If there is a difference, then I think it would be an easy enough transition into London after 1d4 Nf6 2Nf3 g3 with 4Bf4.

There are at least two reasons that I can think of why the London System is good against the KID, but the Colle isn't:

1) In the London System, White gets his QB out to before hemming it in with e2-e3.

2) One of the main themes of the Colle is to play Bf1-d3. Against the KID, this plan doesn't make any sense because Black's pawn on g6 makes a kingside attack based on exploiting the b1-h7 diaganol very difficult.


I'm confused now :lol: so you do block in the c1 Bishop with the Colle then, or not? I confess I've always dismissed it as a passive opening and never given it much consideration - but from games I'm finding on Fritz, the c1 Bishop isn't seeing the light of day. It looks like you may as well just play the Stonewall - seems to me it has all it's defensive moves, but none of it's attacking ones!

Here’s one game where use of the London would have been superior anyway: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1258212


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Knight
 
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:29 pm
Posts: 26
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:36 pm 
Yes that is a good traditional Colle game. Notice that on move 9, white forces the traditional 3 on 2 queenside pawn ending, then follows up with e4. (it is this 3 on 2 advantage that is the deciding factor in the game when black resigns as white about to promote.)

After 10e4, white is looking for dxe4 follow up by Nxe4, followed by the Nxe4 (at least the knight interchange happened in this game) followed by Bxe4. After this predictable chain of moves, the c1 bishop is in perfect postion to attack the castled king.

Thanks for giving me the link to that game. It is absolutely beautiful game by white, especially at the end. Although, 19Bxh7 would have made things interesting. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Pawn
 
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am
Posts: 13
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:22 pm 
Nasgard wrote:

I'm confused now :lol: so you do block in the c1 Bishop with the Colle then, or not? I confess I've always dismissed it as a passive opening and never given it much consideration - but from games I'm finding on Fritz, the c1 Bishop isn't seeing the light of day. It looks like you may as well just play the Stonewall - seems to me it has all it's defensive moves, but none of it's attacking ones!


The Bishop does not really stay blocked in. It's just temporarily un-developed.

In the Colle-Zukertort, the Bishop will go to b2, supporting the e5 square and putting possible latent pressure on f6 or g7.

In the Colle-Koltanowski, the e-pawn almost always goes to e4 eventually [move 9 most of time.]

Think of Black in the meran semi-slav...his K-Bishop stays on c8 for several moves...way longer than white's c1 Bishop in the Colle-Koltanowski. I don't think people would call the Semi-Slav a "passive" defense by any stretch of the imagination!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Offline
Pawn
 
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:58 am
Posts: 24
 Post subject: Re: London System
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:48 am 
"Winning with the London System" by Andrew Soltis.

This is an excellent book on learning the London System. I own it myself.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 15 posts ] 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 193 on Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:40 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest





ChessCentral - The Leader in Cutting-Edge Chess * Buy Fritz 12 * Buy Rybka 4 * Buy Fritz Powerbook DVD


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

Style based on Andreas08 by Andreas Viklund and created by Elizabeth Shulman, Stop Animal Rights, Dog Training by corgipower