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1.F4 D5 2.____
Nf3 (followed up by e3, d4 be3 setup) 65%  65%  [ 13 ]
B3 (Bb2, controlling the black squares) 35%  35%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 20
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Pawn
 
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 12:22 am
Posts: 21
 Post subject: Birds Opening ~
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:50 pm 
HELP! What line??

1.f4 d5

What do you guys recommend??
2.NF3 followed up by e3, d4 be3 type of thing OR:
2.b3 Please HELP!

Even if you aren't an expert, please vote i'd like to get a wide range of opinions !


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Site Admin
 
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:04 pm
Posts: 391
Location: Texas
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:38 pm 
From the authority on the Bird, our fearless leader Sid Pickard:

Quote:
They both win equally well.


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Moderator
 
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:18 pm
Posts: 186
Location: The Nati
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:16 pm 
Well, in my typical rather dogmatic way, I would personally recommend that instead of 1. f4 you play a better move (1. e4, 1. d4, 1. c4, 1. Nf3, or even 1. g3), but that is just me.

Assuming that you have opened with f4, I have personally had the most trouble responding to the simple plan of Nf3, e3, etc.


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Pawn
 
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 2:52 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Netherlands
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:37 pm 
1 f4 d5 2 b3 can be big fun, but with correct (strong) black play a little dull and drawish. It is a good opening to learn to attack or play against a double pawn on c6 / c5. Do not play it for a too long time, since you tend to get into too much routine play. You will know after a year what I mean.

Your option a. will then be more interesting. But study then also "stonewall" colle. It is also then adviseable to study the reversed I-Z variation of the dutch.


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King
 
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:32 am
Posts: 182
Location: India
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 8:21 am 
Obviously the first option should fare better for White. However, the game here in most cases is very closed and involves more of 'piece maneuvering' onto the right squares and is highly strategical than tactical. The second option fares better on the tactical scale if the Black player castles on the king-side, since it involves White fianchetto-ing his Queen's Bishop and putting his other bishop on d3. From there, both the bishops train their powers right at the castled Black king and the game then usually involves White sacrificing a piece or two to break open Black's castled position.

Here's an example game, played by the former champion Lasker:

Emanuel Lasker - Johann Bauer
1-0

1. f4 d5 2. e3 Nf6 3. b3 e6 4. Bb2 Be7 5. Bd3 b6 6. Nc3 Bb7 7. Nf3 Nbd7 8.
O-O O-O 9. Ne2 c5 10. Ng3 Qc7 11. Ne5 Nxe5 12. Bxe5 Qc6 13. Qe2 a6 14. Nh5
Nxh5 15. Bxh7+ Kxh7 16. Qxh5+ Kg8 17. Bxg7 Kxg7 18. Qg4+ Kh7 19. Rf3 e5 20.
Rh3+ Qh6 21. Rxh6+ Kxh6 22. Qd7 Bf6 23. Qxb7 Kg7 24. Rf1 Rab8 25. Qd7 Rfd8
26. Qg4+ Kf8 27. fxe5 Bg7 28. e6 Rb7 29. Qg6 f6 30. Rxf6+ Bxf6 31. Qxf6+
Ke8 32. Qh8+ Ke7 33. Qg7+ 1-0


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Newbie
 
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:37 pm
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 Post subject: The Bird is the Word!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:37 am 
I've just started experimenting playing the Bird... 1. f4
Got a copy of Tim Taylor's "The Bird's Opening"
according to his book

The Reverse classical 1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 c5 3. e3 Nf6 4. Be2 g6 5. 0-0 etc.. gives white a strong chance of an opening advantage.. ( I play the Classical Dutch....I can see it...

Lines where the Queens Bishop goes to b2 are ONLY good if balck Play's d5, c5, Nc6 and doesn't play the Bishop to g7. If they set up with a bishop on g7 don't expect to win. Black can get =+ at the very lease if they know what they are doing ( old news.....nothing new

The Reverse Leningrad gives white a chance at an opening advantage...
The From Gambit....Black is doing horrible (and it looks like that's not going to change)..I agree

yet he doesn't have a solution for The Sicilian....son of a !@%**!

And This is the Crux of the matter for me.......Its the harpoon that probably will sink the Bird's in pratical play....making it hard for me to use 1. f4 as a primary opening.

a lot club and tourney players play Sicilians...if not most... (this will probably be the response that most Bird players see the most... It is for 1. e4..... why not 1. f4???

at the beginning of the Book Talyor states that 1...d5, the 1...e5 is seen the most...I disagree at master level and below.. Taylor against the Sicilian, gives the line 1. f4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. e4 Nc6 4. Be2... ?????????????????

What???

My Chess Assistant Database gives horrible satistics for this line (2.5 mil games...gives: 0-1 at 50% ?????????? draws 27% and finally 1-0 22% 93 games total...(the amount of games played ...should be a red flag...let alone the terrible sastistics

I have to question the rest of the book....(so I will be looking hard at the lines Taylor gives....


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Pawn
 
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:26 pm
Posts: 8
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:39 pm 
Although the second option can produce more interesting lines of play I believe the first option is far more reliable


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Pawn
 
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:32 am
Posts: 14
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:35 pm 
I play 1.f4 about 60% of my games and I always do the first line, I recently began playing against strong players and when I did b3 they crushed :shock: me on my Queenside.


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Knight
 
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 46
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:01 pm 
yet he doesn't have a solution for The Sicilian....son of a !@%**!

I think Part Three of his book addresses this issue?

My Chess Assistant Database gives horrible satistics for this line (2.5 mil games...gives: 0-1 at 50% ?????????? draws 27% and finally 1-0 22% 93 games total...(the amount of games played ...should be a red flag...let alone the terrible sastistics

True but did you travel a little farther with Chess Assistant and watch the transpositons? It doesn't seem like it. Interesting!? i.e. 1f4 c5 2Nf3 Nc6 3e3 Nf6 4Be2 g6 5O-O Bg7 6Qe1 O-O 7d3 d5 (oops Black scores 65%) 7Nc3 (oops White scores 65%) Do you realize that the Birds it is not a widely popular so hence you have to do some work on the opening yourself?

play 1b3 :)


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Pawn
 
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:59 pm 
I thoroughly reccomend reading into Tartakower's studies of the Bird's. I think some of his theories are worth renaming the opening altogether. No offense to Bird.


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King
 
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Placentia, CA
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:39 am 
After 1 f4 d5, I usually play 2 b3. This move is recommended by Andrew Soltis in his book "The Bird-Larsen Attack."


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King
 
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:03 am
Posts: 116
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:39 pm 
Um, people, are you forgetting the From Gambit?


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King
 
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Placentia, CA
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:56 pm 
DarthStapler wrote:
Um, people, are you forgetting the From Gambit?


Shhhhh! When I play 1 f4, the move I really hate to see is 1...e5 (From's Gambit). Black gets to have all the fun in the opening. In his book An Opening Repertoire for the Attacking Player, GM Eduard Gufeld recommends From's Gambit against the Birdbrain opening. But let's keep that our little secret, okay?


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