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Rook
 
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:49 pm
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Location: Texas
 Post subject: Queen's Bishop Attack
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:25 pm 
Two weeks now & no posts for the Queen's Pawn? Okay, just an idea....

After 1.d4 d5 I've played 2.Bg5 a number of times. Whatcha gonna do? If Black goes 2...c5, then 3.Nc3. Or if 2...c6 then still 3.Nc3, and 3...Qb6 meets with 4.Rb1.

The general idea for White is to play e2-e3 & f2-f4 - a kind of Stonewall with the QB outside the pawn chain. White should be careful to meet ...e7-e6 at any point with a2-a3.

Also, if 2...Nf6 White gets to lop off the Knight with 3.Bxf6, and if instead 2...Nd7 (seen more than once) then 3.e4!? is interesting.

I don't know. Call it "My System" :twisted:

So, any thoughts? Refutations?

(I would have posted on some 14th move deviant of the KID, but we'll leave that to the GMs :) )


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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:42 am
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 Post subject: Re: Queen's Bishop Attack
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:00 am 
ChessCentral wrote:
Two weeks now & no posts for the Queen's Pawn? Okay, just an idea....

After 1.d4 d5 I've played 2.Bg5 a number of times. Whatcha gonna do? If Black goes 2...c5, then 3.Nc3. Or if 2...c6 then still 3.Nc3, and 3...Qb6 meets with 4.Rb1.

The general idea for White is to play e2-e3 & f2-f4 - a kind of Stonewall with the QB outside the pawn chain. White should be careful to meet ...e7-e6 at any point with a2-a3.

Also, if 2...Nf6 White gets to lop off the Knight with 3.Bxf6, and if instead 2...Nd7 (seen more than once) then 3.e4!? is interesting.

I don't know. Call it "My System" :twisted:

So, any thoughts? Refutations?

(I would have posted on some 14th move deviant of the KID, but we'll leave that to the GMs :) )




Trompowski has played 2.Bg5 , as early as the thirties, and recently Miles and Adams have played it as well. It's called something like the Lewinsky-attack :D (oh, I just found it's called the Levitsky attack...)

If you play Nc3 answered with Nf6 it inevitably will transpose back to some other variation.
1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 c6 3.Nc3 Qb6 4.Rb1 is - believe it or not - present in my database with a staggering 11 games, between 1984 and 2000, and with lousy results for white :)
The same -in even more games) for 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 c5 3.Nc3 mostly followed by Nc6 4.e3 cxd4 5.exd4 and white is left to cry in the majority of games.

So maybe a lot of your opponents will be glad to test your system ..... :twisted:


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Rook
 
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:49 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:40 am 
Oh, so now you're gonna rub my nose in your database? :P

Truthfully I've never played it in a tourney against anyone over 2200 - but hey, if Miles could do it....

What's better than 3.Nc3 as an answer to 2...c5 I wonder? I do seem to recall getting in trouble here in one tournament game, which went 3...Nc6 4.dxc5 d4 5.Ne4. I think it continued 5...Qd5 6.f3.

Yuck!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:01 pm 
ChessCentral wrote:
Oh, so now you're gonna rub my nose in your database? :P

Truthfully I've never played it in a tourney against anyone over 2200 - but hey, if Miles could do it....

What's better than 3.Nc3 as an answer to 2...c5 I wonder? I do seem to recall getting in trouble here in one tournament game, which went 3...Nc6 4.dxc5 d4 5.Ne4. I think it continued 5...Qd5 6.f3.

Yuck!



You are talking about a kind of stonewall situation. But IMO the aim of a stonewall system (like a hedgehog) is to endure a cramped position and leave the opponent space yet create holes in his defense to be exploited by a counter-attack
1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 c5 3.Nc3 and f6 4.Bh4 cxd4 5.Qxd4 e6, however doesn't give gaping holes in black defence, nor a quick attack through e.g. a fianchetto.

And if you know how to play a QGD as black, you have sufficient answer to deliver.

So I don't think lopping of the knight is a very good idea.
You want a formation with e3 and f4 and the QB outside that phalanx. But as soon as it's blocked by Nf6 or counter-attacked by f6 your one and only active piece is gone, neatly checking e7.
If you play 3. Nc3 black has no business on your queenside and can turn its eye to that active bishop of yours.

But now what if you play 3.dxc5 in that case 3...Nf6 4.Nf3 Ne4 5.Bh4 (tempo for a tempo) 5...Nc6 6.e3 would give you development for your QB+K, and open space for your KB. Also it secures b6 with pawn c5 against Qb6.

3... Nc6 would give 4.e4 keeping black occupied at the queenside and 4...dxe4 5.Qxd8+ Nxd8 6.Bb5+ or 6.Nc3 and white is okay AFAICS.

Want any database results? :roll: :wink:


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Rook
 
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:49 pm
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 Post subject: The Vulture
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 8:14 pm 
By the way, I REALLY like Stefan Bucker's "Vulture" attack for Black: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 Ne4!?

Not so much for its value as a system (though I've had good luck with it), but because it's so original - rarely anymore does someone get to invent a new opening!


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Pawn
 
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:35 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:55 am 
Your system really looks like the Veresov (or Richter-Veresov), because of your following up with Nc3. Immediately playing 2. Nc3 may be a lot better, as it evades this troublesome line : 2. ... f6, Bh4 3. Nh6!?


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Knight
 
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:49 am
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Location: Kidwelly, Wales
 Post subject: Queen's Bishop's Attack / Pseudo Trompowsky
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:41 pm 
Hi All,
There's an excellent video / DVD by Gary Lane on this line where he makes a good case for its existence. I think there is a sound line for Black in h6 / c6 / Qb6 / Bf5 but it does create new lines not heavily cloaked in theory. I've tried it in postal once and I got 2....., h6 3.Bh4 g5 4.Bg3 Bg7 in reply.


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