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Pawn
 
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:04 am
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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:36 am 
SonOfPearl wrote:
OverDjinn wrote:
The obvious line for you to try is the Tarrasch Defense. You get an isolated queen's pawn, but very active pieces and some tactical options based around an eventual d5 in many cases. The middlegames are very difficult and tactical. If you want super sharp, I'd say you might consider studying the KID or some lines of the Benko Gambit or perhaps a Benoi, but that requires a lot of theory for a queen's gambit player to learn.

-G


Thanks. I tried the Tarrasch before and have Schiller's book (A Complete Defense to Queen Pawn Openings) but I'm not sure if it's for me - it's an idea though.

I was considering the Slav/Semi Slav. Might that be a good idea? Are there any good introductory books?

Thanks again :)


I want to second Sly's recommendation of Sadler's books on the semi-slav. I play the Semi-slav and it is very enjoyable.

Have you tried the Chigorin? It used to be considered second-class, but recently it has been growing in popularity. It takes a special type of person to enjoy the Chigorin, but you should at least give it a shot to see if you like it.

If you are interested in giving the dutch another look, there is a "hot off the presses" new book written by Sverre of Sverre's Chess Corner.

-David


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Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:20 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:40 am 
Zukertort wrote:

I want to second Sly's recommendation of Sadler's books on the semi-slav. I play the Semi-slav and it is very enjoyable.

Have you tried the Chigorin? It used to be considered second-class, but recently it has been growing in popularity. It takes a special type of person to enjoy the Chigorin, but you should at least give it a shot to see if you like it.

If you are interested in giving the dutch another look, there is a "hot off the presses" new book written by Sverre of Sverre's Chess Corner.

-David


Thanks David. I'm impressed by Sadler as a writer, so I might get his Semi-Slav book eventually. I'm afraid I'm not one of the special type of people who enjoys the Chigorin! :) Sverre's Chess Corner looks interesting - thanks!


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Rook
 
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:38 am
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:56 pm 
turr wrote:
Norman_T_Whitaker wrote:
and he will usually play something like the inferior Steinitz line with Bf4, because he’s in a rush to play e3.

Bf4 is no inferior compared to Bg5 you have a wrong immpresion of this line.


Well it’s a matter of opinion at the end of the day it’s what you’re comfortable with :)

Though it does score a lot less wins for White in my database, and Mr Kasparov’s opinion is that it’s inferior in his Chessbase DVD on the Queens Gambit - so that’s good enough for me :lol:


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Bishop
 
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:07 am
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:48 am 
Norman_T_Whitaker wrote:
turr wrote:
Norman_T_Whitaker wrote:
and he will usually play something like the inferior Steinitz line with Bf4, because he’s in a rush to play e3.

Bf4 is no inferior compared to Bg5 you have a wrong immpresion of this line.


Well it’s a matter of opinion at the end of the day it’s what you’re comfortable with :)

Though it does score a lot less wins for White in my database, and Mr Kasparov’s opinion is that it’s inferior in his Chessbase DVD on the Queens Gambit - so that’s good enough for me :lol:


Do a search from the year 2000 and compare both lines. Kasparov's opinion is not enough for me.


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Rook
 
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:38 am
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:47 pm 
turr wrote:
Do a search from the year 2000 and compare both lines. Kasparov's opinion is not enough for me.


Lol yes he’s only the greatest overall player who ever lived… nothing special or anything :roll:

I did do the search when I made my original point from all the games in my database from 1700 or whatever to 2007 - the line doesn’t score as high.


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Bishop
 
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:23 am 
Norman_T_Whitaker wrote:

Lol yes he’s only the greatest overall player who ever lived… nothing special or anything :roll:

I did do the search when I made my original point from all the games in my database from 1700 or whatever to 2007 - the line doesn’t score as high.



Maybe he changed his opinion.Let ask today because Carlsen plays this line.

How was your searched made: filtered to gms, rated players above 2500, between year 2000-till last week?


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Rook
 
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:38 am
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:14 pm 
turr wrote:
Norman_T_Whitaker wrote:

Lol yes he’s only the greatest overall player who ever lived… nothing special or anything :roll:

I did do the search when I made my original point from all the games in my database from 1700 or whatever to 2007 - the line doesn’t score as high.



Maybe he changed his opinion.Let ask today because Carlsen plays this line.

How was your searched made: filtered to gms, rated players above 2500, between year 2000-till last week?


Possibly Carlsen does play it, but then again Kasparov has only just started teaching him :wink: But I admit it cant be a bad line if Carlsen plays it.

Are you using Chessgames.com or something to do this search? I just used Fritz 11 and did a position search.


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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:28 am 
Chessgames, chesslab, created a twic database, and chessok one. Besides couple of books in the queen's gambit and this line is a good alternative to the traditional Bg5.


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Rook
 
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:42 pm 
turr wrote:
Chessgames, chesslab, created a twic database, and chessok one. Besides couple of books in the queen's gambit and this line is a good alternative to the traditional Bg5.


Chessgames.com is missing a ton of games, so you can’t do an accurate search on scoring lines. I’m using Chessbase and if memory serves it told me the line scores about 20% less for white than Bg5.

And with that I think I’ll opt out of the debate here - it’s been going on for months and I’m fed up now, I think I’ll take Chessbase and Garry’s opinion rather than a few nameless Queens Gambit books you’ve supposedly got this info from :roll: :wink:


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Pawn
 
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:08 am
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:39 am 
A sharp option against d4 is the Grunfeld or Nimzo-Indian Defense. If you're looking to still achieve positions similar to that of the caro-kann, which I'm a fan of, you could opt for a variation which include black moves of d5,c6,Nf6,a6 and b5(a6 and b5 if white plays c4 that is)


~ChessNetwork~
http://www.youtube.com/user/ChessNetwork


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Bishop
 
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:22 am 
Norman_T_Whitaker wrote:
turr wrote:
Chessgames, chesslab, created a twic database, and chessok one. Besides couple of books in the queen's gambit and this line is a good alternative to the traditional Bg5.


Chessgames.com is missing a ton of games, so you can’t do an accurate search on scoring lines. I’m using Chessbase and if memory serves it told me the line scores about 20% less for white than Bg5.

And with that I think I’ll opt out of the debate here - it’s been going on for months and I’m fed up now, I think I’ll take Chessbase and Garry’s opinion rather than a few nameless Queens Gambit books you’ve supposedly got this info from :roll: :wink:


And chessok and twic also? you are completely biased against this system in irrational ways,why? ...You want references: Mathew Sadler's Queen's Gambit,, Colin Crouch The Queen's Gambit Declined 5. Bf4,Rustem Dautov ChessBase cd trainer Bf4 and others, if you want more information I could quote more information more than your memory search done in your "database"


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Rook
 
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:38 am
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:06 pm 
To be honest I'm really not interested in debating this any longer (in truth I can't understand some of what you're saying because you're English is very broken). I must have said the line doesn’t score as high from a Fritz database about five times and you’re just ignoring me :roll: :lol: We'll just have to agree to differ :)


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Bishop
 
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:53 am 
Norman_T_Whitaker wrote:
To be honest I'm really not interested in debating this any longer (in truth I can't understand some of what you're saying because you're English is very broken). I must have said the line doesn’t score as high from a Fritz database about five times and you’re just ignoring me :roll: :lol: We'll just have to agree to differ :)



Don't get personal it clouds the mind.
I am trying to explain this line is being played at top level games recently (there are examples even in the recent World Cup)because_____ (you fill the blank)


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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:15 am 
I started this monster thread a long time ago and I've had a lot of great responses, for which I thank everyone very much. :)

Hopefully the ideas have been helpful to other forum members too. The original discussion seems to wandered somewhat off-topic now (I was interested in a sharp option for a lowly club player like myself). Personally, I'm not bothered about what GM's are playing.

I've decided to play most of my games more sharply, so have settled on the King's Indian. My results have been mixed, but it's certainly more lively than the QGD. 8)


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Rook
 
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 Post subject: Re: Sharp option for Black against d4?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:16 pm 
turr wrote:
Norman_T_Whitaker wrote:
To be honest I'm really not interested in debating this any longer (in truth I can't understand some of what you're saying because you're English is very broken). I must have said the line doesn’t score as high from a Fritz database about five times and you’re just ignoring me :roll: :lol: We'll just have to agree to differ :)



Don't get personal it clouds the mind.
I am trying to explain this line is being played at top level games recently (there are examples even in the recent World Cup)because_____ (you fill the blank)


I wasn’t been personal, I was stating a fact that you’re English is a little broken and I can’t make sense of everything you are saying. (and "Don't get personal it clouds the mind??!" You're not a bloody Jedi! :lol:)

And that’s not in dispute, top level GM’s may be playing it - the point I was making (for the umpteenth time) was that in general the line DOESN’T score as high. The only blank here mate is the inside of you’re head :wink:


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