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Pawn
 
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:39 pm
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Location: California
 Post subject: Knight vs Rook ?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:26 pm 
I'm wondering if it's a always good idea to exchange your Knight for your opponent's Rook when forking his King not allowing him to castle? I've done this a few times and usually end up losing my Knight being"on the rim" of the board.


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King
 
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:03 am
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:06 am 
It's never always a good idea to do anything (except checkmate). There are exceptions to every rule.


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King
 
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:27 pm
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:23 pm 
If the chap you're about to checkmate is getting red around the collar, and 15cm taller than you, has a mean temper, and has started making twitchy gestures towards a painfully-solid or dangerously-pointy object, I'd even be tempted to neglect your checkmate rule, DarthStapler.


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King
 
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:09 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Placentia, CA
 Post subject: Re: Knight vs Rook ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:31 am 
fisherking wrote:
I'm wondering if it's a always good idea to exchange your Knight for your opponent's Rook when forking his King not allowing him to castle? I've done this a few times and usually end up losing my Knight being"on the rim" of the board.

Unless there's a clear reason not to, you should always trade your knight for your opponent's rook. You will win making this trade far more often than you will lose because of it.


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Pawn
 
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:39 pm
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Location: California
 Post subject: Re: Knight vs Rook ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:40 am 
chuckychess wrote:
fisherking wrote:
I'm wondering if it's a always good idea to exchange your Knight for your opponent's Rook when forking his King not allowing him to castle? I've done this a few times and usually end up losing my Knight being"on the rim" of the board.

Unless there's a clear reason not to, you should always trade your knight for your opponent's rook. You will win making this trade far more often than you will lose because of it.

Thank you! I was pretty sure this was correct. I think its better to have one more rook in the end game!


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King
 
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:27 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:32 pm 
Yes, actually, sorry, you deserved a proper reply.

You're talking about the situation where someone has been unwise enough to let you approach too close with a knight before they castled, and you've taken a pawn on the queen's side, forking rook and king.

This is the sort of thing that only happens once or twice at the start of your victim's chess career, as it's really so painful that it's not easily forgotten.

Yes, you should take the rook. Firstly rooks are worth more, as chuckychess said. A rook is worth about 5 pawns at this stage in the game, while a knight is only worth a little more than three. Secondly there is huge psychological effect in this attack. Thirdly it is plain annoying not to be able to castle.

You are right that it is very hard to extricate your knight after the take, even though it's not under immediate threat, but who cares? You are at least 2 pawns better off anyway. If you get the knight out too, it's a bonus.

You are also absolutely right about your comment on rooks. So often a game is decided by who can stack up the biggest line of big-guns down an open file, so if you've got 2 rooks and your opponent only has one, you have a huge advantage.

Similarly, in the end game, a rook can guard any promotion square, while a bishop can only guard half of them, and a knight is a tricky tool for guarding any, since he can only stand on squares close to the target and can't move away while still guarding. Hence a rook is a really good back-up for that passed pawn.

Rooks are also very good at eating up opponent pawns if they can get behind enemy lines in the end-game.


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King
 
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:57 am
Posts: 142
Location: Leeds, UK
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:08 pm 
lionel wrote:
Yes, you should take the rook. Firstly rooks are worth more, as chuckychess said. A rook is worth about 5 pawns at this stage in the game, while a knight is only worth a little more than three. Secondly there is huge psychological effect in this attack. Thirdly it is plain annoying not to be able to castle.


I have to say, while yes it is annoying not to be able to Castle psychologically speaking, it can be an advantage not to do so – there are lines of the Czech defence that recommend allowing white to trade Queen's very early on (and black recapturing with King). And unless an opponent plays a very aggressive attack, it’s rare I need to castle using the London system – in fact the King’s Rook is better placed on h1 to aid the Kingside pawn push.

Obviously before people attack me with a ton of games, I realise in certain situations the game can be over if you loose the ability to castle and can’t get your king out of harms way :wink:

Whoops I seem to have gone Off Topic :lol:

I pretty much agree with anyone else – unless you can see a mating combination or another clear reason not to do so, it’s best to snap off that Rook every time.


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